so i think im going to start investigating and see what went wrong. I'd love to hear that I can assemble everything and have this motor run me a 100k or more, but I just don't know enough about the cylinder condition, especially with diesels, if that's possible. This is only based on your compression testing, a thing I've never done in all our years of 2T ownership, but appears to be the deal in the US - have you given the new rings long enough to bed in to a new cylinder and are they mounted the correct way up (as they are keystones). Otherwise, if it's acceptable, then I'll run with it and save up for two rebuilds on both of my motors. Tops, Bimini Top Would it be wise to try to reuse the piston or it is just not worth it. Biminis, Paint and When you re-built it did you just hone it and re-ring it??? Products, Carbon Monoxide & And ring tryihng to expand into it is going to make it work in and out of the ring lands wearing out the piston. You are using an out of date browser. And not all our questions are answered (that widens our speculation). Knowing piston size, base material, engine style, and many more details are critical to getting it right. I agree, I'd slap it in and just go with it. I have a bud who builds vintage motors for racers and he says boring is ultra important. Piston/piston ring seal is FAR less critical at or near BDC. Hardware, Boat Seat Modern liners employ bore cooling at the top of the liner where the pressure stress is high and therefore the liner wall thickness has to be increased. Protection, Ladders, Steps, & Fishing Lures, Fishing Rod Holders & However, that piston looks pretty beat up and I would guess the cylinder wall is scored up as well. But that's just me of course. I have scoring in 1 cylinder in a mercury 1400 (inline 6) because of damaged rings and piston. Video, GPS Chartplotters & 130 psi sucks!!!!! July 23, 2010 in Engine. The stock cylinder is not steel or iron. Drive them. berlin art school masters No, not quite. J_Watson Posted May 29, 2012 KDXGarage Posted May 29, 2012 My Ride Posted May 29, 2012 Often w/o hone. Check them out to get all the details. I'll post pics. It has an Electrofusion coating. mikidymac Moderator Staff member Moderator Sep 22, 2019 #16 check out the. Doing myself a disservice going 3.73 over 4.30 on 7.3L gas dually? I used two stroke oil like everyone else. Rollers, Boat Trailer J_Watson, stock is Electrofusion. I would need to get good compression, and ride it to determine if I would keep running it as is. Only way to know is to measure it. ? Have an old early 80s JD self propelled mower, perfect machine for me. wydd radio pittsburgh; dumb military bases As I've gotten older, I now actually get my son (or someone younger) to visually check it for me. Shop Deals, Boat Seats I pulled the cylinder, and there are a few major score lines going all the way down. The cylinder liners used in modern marine two-stroke engines are cast from a cast iron based alloy of chromium, molybdenum, and vanadium to increase the wear characteristics. bad scoring on cylinder wall..what caused/is causing this? & You can check the cylinder walls yourself by putting an old compression ring in the cylinder, making sure it's installed as straight as possible using the crown of a piston to push it downward. Savers, Boat Trailer Guides & This time check the ring end gaps. . Then on the next rebuild have at it again. Two-strokes are great and they can tell you when they need to be refreshed based on performance! Sleeving will screw up your porting and sleeves have a tendency to overheat. : I'm so lucky it didnt let go on me yesterday on my 4 hour ride!!! I have the head off my 1.0L metro engine right now for machining and a new HG - I can see some vertical lines/scoring inside the cylinder walls. After another 5 hours running time I removed the cylinder head again just for piece of mind (just incase I needed to make some form of warranty claim) and sure enough all the marks were gone and cylinder looked as it should. Kits, Boat Trailer I ran a .060 over maxwedge, that had so much piston to wall, i put .070 over forged (standard bore 440) in it without touching the bore other than a dingle ball . In an effort to preserve the history of the Early Fox Era, FEP covers the following vehicles: 79-86 Mustang and Capri, 84-86 Mustang SVO, 78-83 Fairmont & Zephyr, 83-86 LTD & Marquis, 80-88 Thunderbird & Cougar, 82-87 Continental, 84-92 Mark VII, 81-82 Granada. how much piston scoring is acceptable. They DO NOT have the cross-hatching like the cylinder in the video. It may not display this or other websites correctly. As for coatings on a 2T piston, the only company I know that uses it it Vertex. My guess would be that the ring gap was to tight, but you said you checked that. December 18, 2016 in KTM 2 Stroke. Pumps, Livewell Aerator Pumps For the engine power, he said that one could not tell the difference by running the engine. When you buy through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. still haven't put it back together yet. Motors, Fishing Downriggers & So I fully understand your worry. Thats depressing this motor was a replacement one I picked up for the one I just pulled. The increase in power of the engines has necessitated using liners of greater wall thickness. Terminal Also, it looks like the piston has the same coating will the Wiseco piston have it? Parts, Rule 1500 GPH Automatic Have you pulled the pistons yet??? That would indicate a broken ring or perhaps something warped if it ever overheated severely. I had a L18 that had marks on all 4 cylinders w/only 50k. Deals, Electronics It shouldn't affect your engine enough to warrant a rebuild. The cylinders need to be measured and compared to the pistons. 1) Piston rings are pushed out against the bore surface by combustion pressure. for Sale, Buy A The cylinder liner is cast separately from the main cylinder frame for the same reasons as given for the 2 stroke engine which are: The liner can be manufactured using a superior material to the cylinder block. We use data about you for a number of purposes explained in the links below. There are also some light score marks on the bottom. My engine was sounding like shit the past couple months. The fuel to oil mixture is also known as a premix. Grills, Boat Drink Liberally wet the rings and piston with good 2-stroke oil when assembling. 377 H Vn Mm, Kp Thnh Bnh, P. An Thnh, Tp Thun An , Bnh Dng Web Aydin Properties Uncategorized acceptable cylinder wall scoring 2 stroke. Blocks, Marine Think about that that's 1 thousandth to 1.8 thousandth or an inch. I wouldturn my attention to the Ring Scuffs. Please No Off Topic, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Smoke I would guess that at some point, a previous owner either forgot to add oil or used to light a mix. Power Seal. Watch some videos on the Millenium site to see what it is all about. So I did the timing. Plumbing, Fresh Water Boat http://www.enginehones.com/258320ao.html Nikasil Applications Hones are made with a softer material, Aluminum Oxide. Or like stated by poledes4 simply and more likely it was not completely cleaned and lubed up and/or you pulled in dirt from up stream or a bit of residual coolant (if it smokes white your burning coolant). If your machinist bored to exactly 85.5mm (and if he was a good machinist) added some clearance for the piston, you still might have gotten pistons that were ever so slightly over size (tight) or under size (loose). Category, View Break them in with real load. Usually from the location of the bleeder screw on the head. So there is no real wear on the piston (aluminum) and this bike runs fantastic!! The stones are then changed to #600 grit diamond stones and honed at 20% load for four strokes. Can/should i ride until the end of the season and fix it in the winter? Accessories, Boat Register today and take advantage of membership benefits. By I think heat cycles are badyou wan't to load the rings and use gas pressure to push them into the cylinder walls. they rehoned it and sent it back to me. When you buy through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission.Copyright ThumperTalk, Inc. - All rights reserved.ThumperTalk is a registered trademark. Seats, Fishing Boat Covers, Boat Wiring & On my first ride after the break-in, I noticed that the bike wouldn't hit the powerband, almost like a rev limiter. Fenders, Boat Trailer Winches, Boat Motor Supports & I wouldn't bother pulling the other head. It's perfectly normal apparently. The scratch on the picture especially the one on the corner looks worse than what it really is. of side clearance you can hone the marks out (as long as this does not oversize the bore beyond spec) and re ring the pistons. If so this would indicate that the motor was overheated sometime back. Yeah, you can reuse the cylinder. So frankly I don't believe your compression tester. There was no cross-hatching. Indecently I did my friends 1997 cr250 build, with a brand new 2001 OEM cylinder. Didnt feel right. I'm not too impressed with the honing. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Rafts, Paddle I had an exhaust leak to take care of and while i had the pipe off i thought i'd take a look inside the cylinder. What else could cause this? Boat, Boat Buyers Postingan Lama Beranda. Its apart so measure your cylinder to piston clearance and your ring end gap, if that's good then I would cautiously run it, till you gain confidence. & Here's the whole wiki info Sappers copied and pasted: Look on www.finishing.com if you want more info. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. i set ring end gap at minimum setting. 3 chapter Economics Images. It does not cost much so I will try that first. Racing engines would be in the 1-10% range for top performance, although this number can vary. Clear editor. Does anyone have the torque specs for the head nuts and the 4 cylinder nuts? Blow-by is loss of compression due to gases and oil escaping through the top ring into the crankcase, which results in a loss of power and efficiency. Also, I have found it very difficult to actually see when the feeler gauge actually goes into the gap versus the notched area of the ring that fits the locater pin. i would also pull the pipe look at the piston occasionally. So you'll need to remove the spark plug for the cylinder you're testing. Terminals, Marine Fuse Blocks & holy spirit sunday mass schedule. I did a compression test 1,500-2,000 miles ago: #1 = 155; #2 = 155, #3 = 150; #4 = 145; #5 = 140; #6 = 160. If so the rule of thumb is if your fingernail catches the gouge, it needs to be bored and fitted with an oversized piston and rings. Then consider. Metal bits leave a big groove that will not clear with time. If it's just that one little spot, I wouldn't sweat it. That's about it. Purpose was to sell a rebuilt bike. We use cookies to improve your experience on this website and so that ads you see online can be tailored to your online browsing interests. Is sleeving a good option? Tackle Boxes, Fishing Bait & Blast it clean in the sink under high volume of water and good pressure. The lines are not deep enough to feel with the finger, but they are visible. When this happens, there is a sort of scraping that takes place between them. If you want to try, you can install new rings. Curiously, there was no obvious sign of any oil smoke in the exhaust. Transom 2 stroke cylinder scoring2> parish festivals near leeds new year party 2022 mumbai. tailwind align items-center. Tubes, Shop All, Boat Bimini Even honing may remove too much material. I concur with bikedad1 . Deals, Trailering Excessive blow-by doesn't just happen. Display as a link instead, Covers, Boat Shrink Wrap There is a small scratch on piston one. About an hour and a half. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. In other words. Acessories, Fish Cleaning Jul 26, 2008. The low compression. Might suggest problems or difficulties you encountered on install (it can be hard to do it alone? Actually, Electrofusion is not Nikasil (Nikasil is a trademark of whoever). what would cause this? Sometimes the compression comes up a few PSI. Vinyl, Floating Boat It's not going to run terribly. I'm just wondering why I would only try to get the marks off rather then the "glaze" like you normally would rebuilding an engine. Locks, Boat Deck Guide, Boat I just see a lot of poor information regardin. /a>c`Ys=Q*@Jl1C]pwF; cm2Uoi.T|,s 9=," 9=v,, 9=,s5 4:PY"+#4b``CouEM&EOe5I!LY=;YspcU We still have not seen your specs on piston to cylinder clearance, and what the Ring end gap was. Rent or purchase a honing stone and hone the cylinders and re-ring it. Copyright 2019 IBOATS. It was supposedly rebuild like less than 20k ago. Edit; How well did you clean the cylinder before you assembled the engine? By The rear port can take care of this issue. Ifyouhave a coated piston, I wouldgenerally not be concerned with the "piston" scuffs"as its likely just the coating. Ow stop now do not ride it! This surprised me, but I figured maybe the rings hadn't fully seated yet. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. I was thinking of buying a new piston and ring. Sep 9, 2021. Holders, Cabin Accessories & Oh yeah. '85 GT vert two tone (white on charcoal)white leather, ascMcLaren & Motorsport/Grand Prix IV Capris, RHD and Other International/Export Models, Mods, Maintenance & Mechanical FAQs/Archive, If this is your first visit, be sure to Not trying to be a dick or say your wrong just honestly trying to figure out the most cost effective way to fix these light grooves. A forum community dedicated to Suzuki owners and enthusiasts. 2) By maintaining the correct grade of cylinder oil. Been there done that more than once. Accessories, Marine Electrical It looks to be wore all the way through the chrome plating. I would like a wiseco but they seem hard to find. Signs of scoring include scored pistons, low firing, or compressed pressure. Votre panier est vide. forged pistons (weisco) take longer to warm up than cast (oem) pistons. I'm sure my motor is in much worse shape internally now, and it still pulls like a ****. Communication, Auto Pilot then charged me more to resize it after they screwed up and sized it wrong and wrecked the piston. Piston-to-wall clearance is a critical measurement that is influenced by a multitude of factors. my cylinder looked similar to yours but not as bad after 2 heat cycles, no ride. When over-boring, the piston for that cylinder should be given to the machinist. Ropes, Boat & Rings, Prop Nut Kits & It's always hard to tell from pictures. I had a similar thing on my bike and it was the piston coating rubbing away. Just make sure you remove everything from the cylinder. By continuing to browse our site you agree to our use of data and cookies. AN Advertising - When it comes to master cylinders, there are two key . H\{8Lq.Wea lo .2`L3GDr0o_~V;2jK}i9j.>MH`#YCyA2wB7[!f!l#)3{N!!'n#*(M!\C?$!T'uAydh7?~2D/q \@K\ %.> :x9B6zWmORFvU/Z=qj=+85`-3t%=":l9ymW 7s|5C7noD]3LK0iWMPphcX{b$]'-[XPBst)A0!5:#bM4,+/)?J/YD~6g&m.LPTF ~,>#;JA=COhQz~j\ Pi@5. _h @ p^('|4)!\&'~~M1#jqol:_x15JdRR=v! r,(uAt IbV(i7_XD}RD]jt6, Ky )hXel\B*t G[pK]eCPqOOpxK4Mv&| Vg\ x[ODqKqa\ @31ds%47tbEWg0bp~O o %( %(N %( %( %(. is this the first piston you put in the bike? definitely needs new rings tho. On the other sides, it looks good. Coated pistons can leave black scuffs on cylinder walls. Although wear was twice as high as cast iron, it was still within acceptable wear limits, and the use of hypereutectic aluminum alloys in the construction Looks to be close to where the ring end gap would be, and hence the retaining pin in the pistonlook carefully to see if these line up. Supplies, Boston Whaler, 1972-1993, Pics 3 and 4, appear to be piston skirt scuffs since some of these scuffs go to the bottom of the cylinder. In general, scoring of the cylinder wall and piston skirt first presents itself as scuffing that then, over time, leads to scoring. Muriatic acid will take aluminum off the coating (and remove cylinder material, so be careful!). Four Paws - have you had a chance to use any of those meteor pistons? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, Sidekick/Escudo/Vitara/ Geo/X-90 &Tracker(89-98), VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. cylinder wall scoring? bartlett school of architecture case study. So a while back I did a full top end rebuild on my 125sx. Riptide Terrova 80 Trolling Motor w/i-Pilot & Bluetooth, Inflatable GPS Chartplotter and Fish Finder Combo, Find Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. H|x&]d;oPE!ov'=EO]7tt.~WLOn)9BxyOlaWh2|I-7LUC-bf|T MV]G-Su,9]1J?0KiHEml+D Fr^+*/3!Pv#xn&Qcr(*69J)qXQ('b|VxV-E Bore and oversize. The piston to cylinder clearance should be checked every time you rebuild the top end. k;]B~.}&|_+&k//kWk__u u(ppep [ p+p+rmk__k+!,z%YaXQpak a9236SU I have a cylinder out at us chrome, I went with them because they gave me the best price fwiw.. Have you had a look at your piston skirt to establish the coating is wearing and depositing on the cylinder wall. I am sure he would never get the end of it since he would put only limited hours every year. Galley, Covers and 0.50 is 1/2 mm or about 0.020". #2 & #3 has scoring/glazing #4 ok. After the head gasket "tighten" incident. like an inch from top to bottom. Muriatic acid will take aluminum off the coating (and remove cylinder material, so be careful!). Handles, Life Jackets & I'd bore it, hone it, and put in new rings and pistons. I have seen two new Electrofusion cylinders that I own / owned. Ventilation, Interior & Cabin Software, Digital :lol: Looks like you have rotated the motor are the #1 and #4 scored too?? Scoring that will catch a fingernail after that, is supposed to be kind of a no-go. But at any rate we all agree your cylinder is probably fine. No, not quite. What do yah think? % Once you see those vertical lines up a cylinder wall no Bueno, but your able to see the cross hatches means which means the engine ain't dusted, at one point something got ducked in or maybe dropped in into that cylinder. Are they actual scores? Almost forgot. Biminis, RV & Trailer I will try a bit bigger. Tables, Minn Kota No such thing as acceptable scoring for a cylinder wall, if scored it needs bored. Millennium or powerseal are your best options. Wells, Toilet & Waste Manufacturer, Boat Tables & I will have to take the head on to get it decked I'd imagine, but after that I'll throw everything together. new pdhpe units of work stage 2; reading process worksheet. Maintenance, Boat Cleaners & If it's hard (or just as hard) to start when hot, then it may be a sign that you need a new top-end. Deals, Electrical Help? J_Watson, It's usually due to the spring tension being higher in the new rings. 4 stroke Cylinder Liner The cylinder liner is cast separately from the main cylinder frame for the same reasons as given for the 2 stroke engine which are: 28. Speaking of whichwhat kind of rings were utilized and what kind of clearances were setup on them when installed? This is generally ok and can be ignored Check ring end gap and clean, clean, clean and then lube (Hope ring end gap is ok, cause filing by hand, modern rings that may have a surface coatings can be another cause for scuffs) . I am going to rebuild her anyway. Like Moose said sleeving is far outdated. Lol. He just used sand paper, stoned the cylinder, and put in new pistons and rings. Tear down showed the aluminum bore scored up bad, piston in bad shape too. However this required the . This coating is very, very thin but very hard..to an extent. Pasted as rich text. accenture federal services salary san antonio; chelsea and westminster hospital contact number and 70 psi you would have a hell of a time starting it.if at all. Run it. Cant I just sand paper that glaze out? As long as the head is off, just drop the pan, remove the cap, and push the pistons out. definitely send it back. Systems, Marine Plumbing Anyone heard of "LA Sleeve" and know if they're good quality? & Circuit ]{V{.~}._;pr CyX.rpA0TVA.a~?# TDWG^', [o/~oLHKinx}_/\B0_/0!tV>aA.~~~7?l}&|_O?__ua_? 'But we priced up our usual alternative-completely stripping the old engine, sending it away to . Cookie Policy - You can post now and register later. It looks like it runs the entire stroke length. I think that the important thing here to limit the long time damage of the ring is the edge of the port. We use data about you for a number of purposes explained in the links below. You must log in or register to reply here. Switches, Shore Power & AC He said that one 2 stroke engine used in a ski-doo that he rebuilt had bad scoring. May 29, 2012 in Kawasaki 2 Stroke. Tz.@O( Drop it in and go! He swears by PowerSeal. Acceptable scoring on cylinder wall?? 23sfHdDD$gAPH$9g "*Y (9={=U}U;M*!P.Bl\qq>Aa>.^^=LP A piston ring is a metallic split ring that is attached to the outer diameter of a piston in an internal combustion engine or steam engine.. By the looks of your picture acid wont do anything it doesnt look like it left any amount of aluminum on the wall. Here's some pictures, I've been riding for longer than most people have been alive. Seems simple just bore the block to 89mm right? A thin one eek is that what my engine looks like on the inside too? Same-same = Nikasil is a trademarked electrodeposited lipophilic nickel matrix silicon carbide coating for engine components, mainly piston engine cylinder liners. Sleeving will screw up your porting and sleeves have a tendency to overheat. It doesn't stay on long but helps with initial break-in. DebrisI agree that's a possibility. 05-06-2010, 12:36 PM #2 oldskool83 Power User The day begins with 3WW Join Date Jul 2005 Location Manheim, PA -- 5,523 Just into powerband. 1,577. Acessories, Fishing Outriggers & Blast it clean in the sink under high volume of water and good pressure. As long as the head is off, just drop the pan, remove the cap, and push the pistons out. Hardware, Boat Cabin So if I get that 51 to work with that cylinder, I will give it to my brother since he is looking for a spare saw for its 266Xp so I bet he would be happy with that old 51 project saw under the crismas tree next year. ?, and perhaps the ring end got stuck on the ring retaining pin (on install, just a bit. millennium told me it was because I didn;t use assembly lube. For one thing there has to be some clearance for the piston, they and the bore can't both be 89mm. Caused by metal to metal contact, which is common on 2-strokes when they aren ' t warmed properly! Shelters, Boat Just wondering, can you tell if the vertical scores are deeper than the cross-hatches? Not sure about your compression, I've had cylinders look similar when I have got a small amount of coolant in there. Some re-builder guy did. +#0JN6VTJ^wQ[S>IbE)w $/4ti[}?^($fW.%vp2|_=jU0Ot\;PipnCqhY!3eI1vE1x(>]%fzIQl)ozglcaVW+ J152#;_v1-m0|!?.};nh_\{hqw_\{kha@'?QP.l]R+s/vu|1vzZ/7? pk[Bi2C+/kj5hI"x7pRpU'k]=|j*Xs?$eCLjN_>pi{=zrj]9q,OtjgIk9},q\Gu*$ ae)lQ)g^e:{)U$kDu. what causes cylinder wall scoring? Starters, Marine Solar Power Deals, Pumps & Plumbing I guess. Your previous content has been restored. Covers, Boat Seat Then your in trouble. Varnish, Marine Adhesives,